QAM and Digital

[John Novicki Jr]

I am looking for a way to view the digital stations (100+) using a QAM
tuner. I know that I will be able to receive the local stations, but will
this also allow me to view the other stations (Discovery, TLC, etc.)? I do
subscribe to digital cable and have one STB that receives stations greater
than 100. Thanks for any responses.

[Chuck Whealton]

Post by John Novicki Jr
I am looking for a way to view the digital stations (100+) using a QAM
tuner.  I know that I will be able to receive the local stations, but will
this also allow me to view the other stations (Discovery, TLC, etc.)?  I do
subscribe to digital cable and have one STB that receives stations greater
than 100.  Thanks for any responses.

John:

I know this is a late response, and you're on TCI while I'm on
Comcast.

One thing that Comcast appears to be doing is that they're FORCING us
to rent set top boxes even if we have televisions with built-in QAM
tuners. I think you would find there's a good number of people on
both sides of the argument. I'm on the side that says if we subscribe
to a certain tier of service, we should be able to receive our
programming broadcast in clear QAM with no equipment rentals - JUST
AS WE'VE DONE WITH ANALOG CABLE FOR YEARS. I have no problem
purchasing newer televisions or my own QAM tuner setup.

Others say, this is just the way it's going and you're stuck paying
it.

What I was told by the representative I spoke with is that the
broadcasters are demanding to be paid for each outlet. Even if you
purchase your own STB, which he told me we could (and I've never
seen), we would STILL be charged per STB.

I'm sorry, I don't believe it, and I don't believe there is a reason
for this other than to bring more dollars into the several large cable
operators. As usual, nobody in a regulatory body is rushing to help
the consumer out. There are 7 - 8 outlets in my house and in use.
I'll be darned if I'm going to rent a STB for each one of them. That
would be $300+ per year additional. It's a stealth increase if I ever
saw one.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[RobertVA]

Post by Chuck Whealton

Post by John Novicki Jr
I am looking for a way to view the digital stations (100+) using a QAM
tuner. I know that I will be able to receive the local stations, but will
this also allow me to view the other stations (Discovery, TLC, etc.)? I do
subscribe to digital cable and have one STB that receives stations greater
than 100. Thanks for any responses.

I know this is a late response, and you're on TCI while I'm on
Comcast.
One thing that Comcast appears to be doing is that they're FORCING us
to rent set top boxes even if we have televisions with built-in QAM
tuners. I think you would find there's a good number of people on
both sides of the argument. I'm on the side that says if we subscribe
to a certain tier of service, we should be able to receive our
programming broadcast in clear QAM with no equipment rentals - JUST
AS WE'VE DONE WITH ANALOG CABLE FOR YEARS. I have no problem
purchasing newer televisions or my own QAM tuner setup.
Others say, this is just the way it's going and you're stuck paying
it.
What I was told by the representative I spoke with is that the
broadcasters are demanding to be paid for each outlet. Even if you
purchase your own STB, which he told me we could (and I've never
seen), we would STILL be charged per STB.
I'm sorry, I don't believe it, and I don't believe there is a reason
for this other than to bring more dollars into the several large cable
operators. As usual, nobody in a regulatory body is rushing to help
the consumer out. There are 7 - 8 outlets in my house and in use.
I'll be darned if I'm going to rent a STB for each one of them. That
would be $300+ per year additional. It's a stealth increase if I ever
saw one.
Charles R. Whealton

Another motive is controlling which subscribers have access to the cable
system's various programming tiers. Many systems will have a small set
of "digital basic" channels distributed in the clear. For additional
monthly fees the cable operator will signal converters or Cable Card
equipped receivers to decrypt a larger set of channels. The customer
access to the expanded channel tiers can be controlled from a computer
terminal at the cable operator's offices. Under the analog system cable
operators had the choice of scrambling channels (which they often do for
ones like HBO, Cinemax and Showtime) or installing filters on the drops
to non-subscribing customers. The installation and removal of the
filters results in the additional cost and delay of sending a field
technician to the immediate vicinity of the customer's home. Of course
the scrambled channels make it necessary for the customer to rent a
converter for each TV where they want to view those channels.

Even when cable companies were able to dispatch a technician to install
filters, the filters would often "mysteriously" disappear from the
customer's drop, allowing the customer to watch non-scrambled analog
channels they weren't paying for.

Complain to your TV retailer if they aren't offering TV models equipped
with slots for the Cable Cards that many cable operators offer for a
lower monthly rental fee than the rental fee for a full converter. The
higher fee for the digital converter gets you the on screen program
guide, pay per view orders with the converter's remote control and on
demand programming.

[Chuck Whealton]

Post by RobertVA

Post by Chuck Whealton

Post by John Novicki Jr
I am looking for a way to view the digital stations (100+) using a QAM
tuner.  I know that I will be able to receive the local stations, but will
this also allow me to view the other stations (Discovery, TLC, etc.)?  I do
subscribe to digital cable and have one STB that receives stations greater
than 100.  Thanks for any responses.

I know this is a late response, and you're on TCI while I'm on
Comcast.
One thing that Comcast appears to be doing is that they're FORCING us
to rent set top boxes even if we have televisions with built-in QAM
tuners.  I think you would find there's a good number of people on
both sides of the argument.  I'm on the side that says if we subscribe
to a certain tier of service, we should be able to receive our
programming  broadcast in clear QAM with no equipment rentals - JUST
AS WE'VE DONE WITH ANALOG CABLE FOR YEARS.  I have no problem
purchasing newer televisions or my own QAM tuner setup.
Others say, this is just the way it's going and you're stuck paying
it.
What I was told by the representative I spoke with is that the
broadcasters are demanding to be paid for each outlet.  Even if you
purchase your own STB, which he told me we could (and I've never
seen), we would STILL be charged per STB.
I'm sorry, I don't believe it, and I don't believe there is a reason
for this other than to bring more dollars into the several large cable
operators.  As usual, nobody in a regulatory body is rushing to help
the consumer out.  There are 7 - 8 outlets in my house and in use.
I'll be darned if I'm going to rent a STB for each one of them.  That
would be $300+ per year additional.  It's a stealth increase if I ever
saw one.
Charles R. Whealton

Another motive is controlling which subscribers have access to the cable
system's various programming tiers. Many systems will have a small set
of "digital basic" channels distributed in the clear. For additional
monthly fees the cable operator will signal converters or Cable Card
equipped receivers to decrypt a larger set of channels. The customer
access to the expanded channel tiers can be controlled from a computer
terminal at the cable operator's offices. Under the analog system cable
operators had the choice of scrambling channels (which they often do for
ones like HBO, Cinemax and Showtime) or installing filters on the drops
to non-subscribing customers. The installation and removal of the
filters results in the additional cost and delay of sending a field
technician to the immediate vicinity of the customer's home. Of course
the scrambled channels make it necessary for the customer to rent a
converter for each TV where they want to view those channels.
Even when cable companies were able to dispatch a technician to install
filters, the filters would often "mysteriously" disappear from the
customer's drop, allowing the customer to watch non-scrambled analog
channels they weren't paying for.
Complain to your TV retailer if they aren't offering TV models equipped
with slots for the Cable Cards that many cable operators offer for a
lower monthly rental fee than the rental fee for a full converter. The
higher fee for the digital converter gets you the on screen program
guide, pay per view orders with the converter's remote control and on
demand programming.

Robert:

I absolutely understand what you're saying, but my point is that I
simply want to continue receiving the channels I've always received -
even if on a digital tier. I don't have ANY PROBLEM if I have to rent
a box for certain things I might WANT, such as On-Demand, or PPV
channels, or even buy new televisions. But I don't want to rent
equipment from Comcast. However, these guys are FORCING this on us.
Even if we purchase our own technology, they told me they'll still
charge us for it. The only thing we'll get on QAM enabled
televisions (without a STB) are the local channels. That's what they
told me.

I honestly feel it's a huge stealth increase and that it's
unwarranted.

My entire point is that if I don't WANT PPVs, guides, or On-Demand,
and if I'm willing to purchase newer television technology or my own
STBs, I shouldn't be forced to pay additional for each set. Nobody
should. I just looked up the message they sent me in addition to the
phone call I received. At $4.95/month after my original 1 STB, that's
an additional $360/year on top of what we already pay. It's not right
that they'll just lob that charge on for us to continue receiving the
same service we've been receiving for years.

I feel that this is a "just because we can" charge. I seriously think
we're being taken for a ride on this one. I don't blame them for
wanting control over what people see. They should have had that all
along. At the same time, I'm not satisfied that we should all be
forced to basically pay a "per outlet" charge in addition to the
service we're already paying for, just because they're afraid to
broadcast on clear QAM.

That we haven't heard more about this, and that I've heard little from
the FCC is beyond amazement (to me).

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com

[RobertVA]

Post by Chuck Whealton
I absolutely understand what you're saying, but my point is that I
simply want to continue receiving the channels I've always received -
even if on a digital tier. I don't have ANY PROBLEM if I have to rent
a box for certain things I might WANT, such as On-Demand, or PPV
channels, or even buy new televisions. But I don't want to rent
equipment from Comcast. However, these guys are FORCING this on us.
Even if we purchase our own technology, they told me they'll still
charge us for it. The only thing we'll get on QAM enabled
televisions (without a STB) are the local channels. That's what they
told me.
I honestly feel it's a huge stealth increase and that it's
unwarranted.
My entire point is that if I don't WANT PPVs, guides, or On-Demand,
and if I'm willing to purchase newer television technology or my own
STBs, I shouldn't be forced to pay additional for each set. Nobody
should. I just looked up the message they sent me in addition to the
phone call I received. At $4.95/month after my original 1 STB, that's
an additional $360/year on top of what we already pay. It's not right
that they'll just lob that charge on for us to continue receiving the
same service we've been receiving for years.
I feel that this is a "just because we can" charge. I seriously think
we're being taken for a ride on this one. I don't blame them for
wanting control over what people see. They should have had that all
along. At the same time, I'm not satisfied that we should all be
forced to basically pay a "per outlet" charge in addition to the
service we're already paying for, just because they're afraid to
broadcast on clear QAM.
That we haven't heard more about this, and that I've heard little from
the FCC is beyond amazement (to me).
Charles R. Whealton

The very reason is all those customers that have been using analog cable
ready TVs to watch extended service tier channels they aren't paying
for. It's the same principle that drives retail stores to put locks on
the display pegs or "display" pick up tickets and only distribute the
actual products to the customer from a security cage near the check out.
Controlling access WILL result in a larger number of extended tier
subscriptions.

If access isn't controlled the channel provider fees would have to be
recovered through even faster growth of basic tier fees.

However, I DO think cable companies should be forced to activate
customer OWNED Cable Cards or equivalent circuits built into TVs. The
customers should be permitted to purchase the cards from other sources
too. The problem isn't the encryption. The problem is allowing
manufacturers and retailers to sell QAM compatible TVs that lack any
sort of mechanism to allow cable operators to control which TVs can
decrypt the programming.

[Chuck Whealton]

Post by RobertVA

Post by Chuck Whealton
I absolutely understand what you're saying, but my point is that I
simply want to continue receiving the channels I've always received -
even if on a digital tier.  I don't have ANY PROBLEM if I have to rent
a box for certain things I might WANT, such as On-Demand, or PPV
channels, or even buy new televisions.  But I don't want to rent
equipment from Comcast.  However, these guys are FORCING this on us.
Even if we purchase our own technology, they told me they'll still
charge us for it.   The only thing we'll get on QAM enabled
televisions (without a STB) are the local channels.  That's what they
told me.
I honestly feel it's a huge stealth increase and that it's
unwarranted.
My entire point is that if I don't WANT PPVs, guides, or On-Demand,
and if I'm willing to purchase newer television technology or my own
STBs, I shouldn't be forced to pay additional for each set.  Nobody
should.  I just looked up the message they sent me in addition to the
phone call I received.  At $4.95/month after my original 1 STB, that's
an additional $360/year on top of what we already pay.  It's not right
that they'll just lob that charge on for us to continue receiving the
same service we've been receiving for years.
I feel that this is a "just because we can" charge.  I seriously think
we're being taken for a ride on this one.  I don't blame them for
wanting control over what people see.  They should have had that all
along.  At the same time, I'm not satisfied that we should all be
forced to basically pay a "per outlet" charge in addition to the
service we're already paying for, just because they're afraid to
broadcast on clear QAM.
That we haven't heard more about this, and that I've heard little from
the FCC is beyond amazement (to me).
Charles R. Whealton

The very reason is all those customers that have been using analog cable
ready TVs to watch extended service tier channels they aren't paying
for. It's the same principle that drives retail stores to put locks on
the display pegs or "display" pick up tickets and only distribute the
actual products to the customer from a security cage near the check out.
   Controlling access WILL result in a larger number of extended tier
subscriptions.
If access isn't controlled the channel provider fees would have to be
recovered through even faster growth of basic tier fees.
However, I DO think cable companies should be forced to activate
customer OWNED Cable Cards or equivalent circuits built into TVs. The
customers should be permitted to purchase the cards from other sources
too. The problem isn't the encryption. The problem is allowing
manufacturers and retailers to sell QAM compatible TVs that lack any
sort of mechanism to allow cable operators to control which TVs can
decrypt the programming.

And I have no problem with them ensuring people don't rip them off.
But that's NOT all they're doing. They will charge you a monthly fee
even if you own the box, again, which they told me you can buy but I
have seen none of for sale, or if you have a cable card. And if you
have a QAM capable television, it's worthless for everything except
the local channels.

I'm absolutely not against them stopping people from ripping them
off. I just don't feel those of us who don't rip them off should have
them, in turn, rip US off. And that's what they're basically doing.
This equates to nothing but a gigantic stealth increase for many of
us.

I've already discussed it with my wife and ultimately, if we can an
over the air signal (admittedly, not easy so far with an indoor
antenna), we'll be leaving them and we'll probably ditch them for
internet service as well.

Charles R. Whealton
Charles Whealton @ pleasedontspam.com